Revolutionizing Investing: Andrew Einhorn Unveils Levelfields, the Game-Changing Tool in Stock Market Analysis

Speaker 2: 0:11

Welcome to Side Hustle City and thanks for joining us. Our goal is to help you connect to real people who found success turning their side hustle into a main hustle, and we hope you can too. I'm Adam Kaler. I'm joined by Kyle Stevy, my co-host. Let's get started. All right. Welcome back everybody to the Side Hustle City podcast. Today we've got a special guest, Andrew Einhorn. He's going to tell us a little bit about the stock market and some AI, and we're going to kind of mix those things together and explain how you guys could potentially make some money out of I don't know. Here in the stock market we have a lot of people come on that are traders, that have courses and all this other stuff. Andrew actually has a piece of software that has transitioned, has done a little pivoting over the years here. Andrew, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3: 1:02

Thanks, thanks for having me Appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 1:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell us a little bit about your software, about the company. Levelfieldsai is the domain name.

Speaker 3: 1:14

That's right. So Levelfields is a automation platform, so we're trying to take all the tedious research processes and investing and fully automate it in order to allow a trader or investor to make smarter, faster, more lucrative decisions. And the basic premise of the platform is that we track and analyze events and all types of events. We've all been there, kind of watching CNBC, or you look in the news in the morning and they're talking about this stock that had this 30% move over a day and you sort of think to yourself, man, how come I never hear about this before the stock moves?

Speaker 2: 1:55

Oh my God, this is my list on whatever time I log into Fidelity, it says movers, and then it's like this one it'll be like 50% up. The one below that's like 30% up. Yeah, what's going on with that man? How do I find these? That's right.

Speaker 3: 2:08

And the fact is that when the price moves, that's when the news media sees the price movement, and then they investigate why the price moved and then they tell you what you missed, which is just kind of rubbing your nose in it, right? So I'm sure you get that formula. That's so helpful. Thanks for that. So what we did we sort of investigated what are the events that are making those outsized moves, what are the drivers of those price movements, and what we found is that there were patterns behind it. There were certain types of events that were proven to move the share price, and they did it again and again and again. And so the top hedge funds know this. If you've been on Wall Street for 20 years, you kind of have a good sense, got a good stalt view of what's going to move the share price, but might not be sitting there looking at news feeds across every different stock, because there's 6,300 stocks to monitor.

Speaker 2: 3:07

I just watched the show Billions. That's what I do. I like that. I watched the show Billions. I want to be that guy.

Speaker 3: 3:13

Yeah, that's how you end up in jail. You know the insider trading stuff.

Speaker 2: 3:17

Yeah, he did a lot of insider stuff yeah.

Speaker 3: 3:21

So there are these events and there's 24 of them on the system and we know that they move the share price dramatically. Some events we have on the platform and move the share price 80, 100, 200% in a day. Those tend to be like biotech companies that got a new patent or they got a new FDA approval for something. Other times it's a small company that gets a huge contract from the government. You know there was like a space company that got a billion dollar contract and they were only doing something like 30 million in revenue at the time. So these astronomical moves and I wouldn't say they were rare, but you know it's not like an everyday occurrence, but there are everyday occurrences of easily 5, 10, 15, 20% price movements and when you look at them in aggregate it reforms a pattern because the same event is happening again and again and again. You know you have these CEOs that, let's say it's a poor performing company and on news that they're leaving, the share price skyrockets because everyone's like yeah, get that guy out of here, yeah, and the hope springs eternal, coming in that the new blood is going to take it in different direction. And then, likewise, you get these. You know these strange kind of bull runs and weird industries you would have never heard of because of macroeconomic factors Like there is. When the war in Ukraine broke out, for instance, example, I started seeing through the platform all these fertilizer companies doing special dividends and giving out money to shareholders and doing stock buybacks and stuff like that, and the share prices were shooting up and I didn't know why. So did two minutes of research on, like you know, what was going on and saw that about a third of the world's sodium potash fertilizer comes out of Ukraine and Russia. War broke out, couldn't get it out, and so you had all these American companies who then could jack up prices, not change anything operational, and all of a sudden they went from like a 15% margin to a 60% net profit margin.

Speaker 2: 5:27

Wow, just because of the war nothing changed, Just a war happened.

Speaker 3: 5:32

Exactly, the price of the commodity shot up because demand was still there but supply was way down. So the events come through the system and you see stuff like that and you're like I've never bought a fertilizer company in my life, never would have thought of buying into one, but I did just because you know the events were coming out and it was clear. And you make you know 30, 50, 100% on that trade in a couple of days or a couple of weeks, depending on what kind of products you're trading. You know equity or options and those things are happening all the time. We have about 4,000 or 5,000 event alerts per year that come through the system. We're analyzing 21 million events to find those juicy 4,000 to 5,000, the ones that are really kind of correlated to market movements. And you know those folks who use our platform. They're using it either for you know one day trades, multi-week trades or sometimes even multi-months and longer-term investments. It really sort of depends on what you're looking for. There's different styles of events. You know short-term, mid-term, long-term duration and it makes it really easy because you don't necessarily need to know very much about fundamental analysis. You don't need anything about technical analysis. You could just look at the system and it says this is a bullish event, kind of the share price north, and this is a bearish event. It's going to drive the share price south. You know and you see a past history of exactly how those types of companies have reacted to those types of events, and so it's very easy to then say, okay, like a weather report, like yeah, there's an 80% chance of rain, you know it's going to last for eight hours and then after that the sun's going to come out and the share price is going to return. So you know it's a nice side hustle in itself. You can take a $200 subscription and get that back in about three minutes in the market without a lot of effort.

Speaker 2: 7:31

So this is a I mean you're offering this to retail investors as well, not just these hedge funds and these, because this feels very much like something that hedge funds would have access to, that retail investors just you know, there's no way they can get it if it's not through like their broker, and their broker has access to something like this.

Speaker 3: 7:50

Yeah, that's exactly what we set out to do. We saw that you know, the top hedge funds I mean, you're looking at 20 billion assets under management and up they can afford to have in-house people, technologists, quants and they develop some of this stuff themselves, right. And so we looked at that and we said this is really unfair. They have all this extra technology. I think we can do the same thing for the average individual and we can make the market a fairer place. Right, we want to level the playing field for the smaller and independent investor using technology, and you know, I would admittedly say 10 years ago I don't think that would have been possible, but once we started working with the AI that we built, we saw that it was and that we could get that level of precision in the data that previously wasn't available. And the idea is that everybody can do this. Anybody can make money in the market. The problem generally is a lack of time, knowledge and resources. Resources could be the form of staff, it could be the form of money or technology, and so we tried to create that bridge so that people have the technology now to monitor the entire market, and so I think what you'll find if you ask an average person how many stocks can you name? They could probably name 20, maybe 30, but there's over 6,000 just in the US exchanges and a lot of them are moving all the time. They don't get media coverage because you know they're not owned by Elon Musk and doesn't drive newspapers to talk about a bull run and fertilizer companies, but it does make money and so that's where the opportunity is. You know, in those companies that you probably would never have heard of, like a, you know, giving example is a packaging company, a direct to consumer packaging company, and if you look back on their chart in, it was February or actually mid-March 2020, they started buying back tons of their stock. So March 2020, remember COVID hits markets crashing, everybody's cutting their dividend, everybody's bailing out of the market, companies are worried they're going to go bankrupt. You know they're trying to get loans before and this one little company that you never heard of starts buying back their stock because they have so much cash. And so you're going to ask the question why, right, like, why would they do this? The reason is they were making the packaging. They designed architectural engineering firms. They make the packaging, all that plastic that comes in a product when it arrives in your door they have to unpackage it. They make all of that plastic packaging, they make the box that it comes in, so that every company that suddenly couldn't sell through a retail store had to sell direct to consumer, because none of us were going to target anymore and all of a sudden the whole world needed what they did, and so this company over the next three years was a thousand percent return on the investment. Wow, and some 10 extra money. And just by paying attention to some of these little anomalies, you could find you would never think about that, though you would never think about that.

Speaker 2: 11:17

You're thinking, oh, let me invest in the pharma companies. Or oh, let me invest in during COVID, let me divest from commercial real estate, let me invest in the basic stuff that everybody thinks about. Nobody even knows that company exists if you're not in the packaging world. I got a friend who they make boxes packaging here in Cincinnati and I ask him all the time hey, how's the economy going? Because it trunks, you know. I mean you got trucks showing up, you got people requesting more packaging. I mean he makes boxes and plastic packages for anything. I mean you name it and you know if they're not selling boxes, that must mean the consumer is not buying, and if trucks aren't showing up to his building, then that means people are buying less stuff. So you know and you always hear that in the market that transportation is a precursor for how the economy is gonna go. So you know people don't think about that, though they don't if you're just a regular Joe investor who I mean last two episodes ago I had a guy on and it hasn't even launched yet, but he is a day trader, trades options and he does spreads. You know he's got his own thing, but it's mostly based on technical analysis, right, and there's a lot of people that do technical trading, and I mean, obviously you got robots out there that are doing technical trading, for you know hedge funds and you know everybody else on the planet, so you know there is something to it. You know, my wife said it was astrology for guys is what technical trading is right.

Speaker 3: 12:52

And and I used to say is there like when you're a kid and you lay on your back and you make shapes with the clouds? Yeah, that's it, that's often what you can do with a chart. That's it, that's it, I see it you know a triple top here.

Speaker 2: 13:05

Yeah, look, it's oversold. Oh, there's the Bart Simpson pattern. Let's see. You know those things, but you know there's something to it. I mean, if enough people do it, then it works right. And you know, some people can forecast early, like they see things in those patterns, maybe before other technical traders do. They take a, they make a move and they make money right, and then they see something coming. They get out the next thing. You know, the thing goes down if they're long and they make money so, or they keep from losing money. So this is kind of like a way I mean it's a fundamental. In a way it's like kind of fun to. It's the same tool, but for fundamentalists, people that do fundamentalists Right, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 13:46

We often see the patterns and we look at some of those too and we have a. We have one scenario on the platform that does technical analysis, but what we often find is the pattern is holding right up until an event happened and then the event changes the pattern. So you see, if you are a technical analyst and you're looking at the chart, you'll say, oh, there's a breakout, look, there was a breakout. And when there's a breakout like this, it means it's going to keep going. That may be true, but the breakout, why did it get caused in the first place? That's what we're about. And so it got caused because there was an event. People read about it, then they bought the stock on the event. Then the technical pattern people saw this big green bar and they go, oh well, you know, gap up, let's go all in. That drives it even further. So when you get into the events, it's a precursor for all the technical analysis stuff. So you're getting in before those moves. It's right when you hear about it, that was causing it. And it's sort of a funny thing because you see a lot of people just trading the patterns but they have no idea what's happening fundamentally to the stock in the news. They're not looking at it, they're just saying, oh OK, did a double bottom, therefore it must have to go up, not true? A lot of times it has a double bottom, but it keeps going down if it has bad news. We kind of get to the core of that, and then you can certainly look at those patterns thereafter and say, wow, I have now two signals that are bullish. I've got an event that's bullish and then a pattern that formed after the event that's bullish. Now I can be even more confident. And then that's the day trading aspect. There are certainly longer term scenarios that we have, for example, when certain activists, investors, come in they buy up 5% or more of a company oh yeah, like they do with Disney recently.

Speaker 2: 15:33

Or Proctor and Gamble. They were threatening to come in and take over Proctor and Gamble for a while here in Cincinnati. We've got that's based here, so you hear a lot of stuff. I mean there are some big money activist investors that will make or break a business. It's true, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:46

I mean, there's a lot of stuff you get to hear that stuff too.

Speaker 2: 15:48

You're ahead of it on that.

Speaker 3: 15:50

That's what we track. We track some of that data coming in. Like Phillips 66 just got a big activist investor came in with a billion dollars and all they really want to do is lower costs, give money back to shareholders and drive up the price. So they're going to do the work for you if you piggyback on that, so you come in and you watch what happened with Salesforce. It's another company that had big activists push the end of 2022. And if you just followed that, then over the next 10 months, I think the return was about 50%, because they just follow the same script fire a bunch of people, save money and then, with the money that you save, give it back to the shareholders. And it's ruthless but it works.

Speaker 2: 16:39

They figure out all that real estate they got in San Francisco. They do anything about that for Salesforce Because they got a few offices probably sitting empty right now.

Speaker 3: 16:46

Probably yeah. Unfortunately they're not leasing it to WeWork either.

Speaker 2: 16:50

No, no, WeWork is definitely not. Yeah, at a premium yeah for sure.

Speaker 3: 16:59

So it's kind of what you make of it in terms of the events. But the idea behind it was pretty simple. It was you're trying to figure out what stocks to buy. You really need to know all this qualitative info about the company, the reports that they're putting out, the news, and if you're serious about buying or investing, you do the due diligence of reading through all these reports, reading through all the news. But it takes a lot of time. It takes even more time to keep up with your investments.

Speaker 2: 17:26

It's absurd, absurd amount of time. I mean this is a full-time job for people and, like I said, the guy I had on my show a couple episodes ago, this is what he does all day. He does options trading all day and he's just looking at the charts, which still takes all day. But imagine having to sift through all of that funnel research, all that information. It takes so long and I think people you know what. Honestly, I think people are attracted to technical trading because it isn't so much reading and for them it's easy. They can spot patterns and things like that. You don't have to spend a whole bunch of time really digging into the financials If you're not a financials guy, if you're not an accountant, if you've never looked at a company's balance sheet before or really dug into their management team or any of this stuff that fundamental guys do. I mean that's a lot of work. I mean people get paid full-time salaries in New York to do this kind of stuff.

Speaker 3: 18:26

Oh, and usually it's by the hundreds. Oh yeah, and that's where we looked at an hedge fund model and they've got 200 analysts that are big hedge fund, that are just pouring through stocks and opportunities and events all the time. And how do you keep up with that? So we took a lot of what they were doing and we democratized it in a platform that everybody can access and then it's pretty clear signal when it comes out. There's a certain type of event. It's either bullish or bearish, and then it shows how much the price typically moves over different periods of time based on that type of event. So you can use that for trading or you could use it for some of the fundamental research. If you are doing that, like, you don't have to thumb through all the news and reports. You just look at the chart and, unlike a typical stock chart in a brokerage system, our events are right there on the chart. So you can see oh, they got a new CEO. Oh, they've just fired a bunch of people, ok, and then you move to the next event and in about a minute you've done all the news research. That would normally take you many, many hours to pull through and then try to match the movements of the charts to the right date on the news or look through the reports and see how they did. It creates that huge barrier where people just go. I don't have time for this crap. I'm just going to put my money in the index. I hope it goes up, and unfortunately it doesn't always go up. There are many years where the indexes have been flat for six, seven, eight years Long stretches, where it doesn't go up or when it just goes down, like last year, and so the mantra has been for a really long time buy and hold is the way to go. Keep your money invested, keep it in the market.

Speaker 2: 20:11

Dollar cost average that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3: 20:13

Yeah, dollar cost average. But that's great if you never have to access your money, which is pretty rare for most people and you have to have a long timeline, and so those two things prevent that kind of investing, not to mention it's not really true. It's true for, like, the greatest companies that ever existed, but for most companies it's not really true.

Speaker 2: 20:34

Well, what about? What about what's going on now, with people accessing their 401ks early and everything, because you know personal debt is through the roof and people got credit card bills and you know the COVID money dried up. So now you got these people who went out and bought you know $1,000 a month cars. You know they did whatever with the refinance or mortgage, they took money out and they, you know, went off and spent it on stuff. Now they got a higher mortgage payment. You know all this wild stuff that had been happening over COVID. People thought the good times were just going to keep on rolling and I mean it was quick, I mean this was fast that the market not just the market but the overall economy just took a turn for the worst and now you got people just living off a debt. I mean that's the kind of stuff that happens and, to your point, if you got money in the market, I mean you're probably taking that out right now.

Speaker 3: 21:55

And that's usually what happens when the market goes down. Unfortunately, people worry that they're not going to have access to the money, so they pull it out at the worst time possible. Yeah, you know, and that's part of what some of our analytics are trying to show is like when there's a fearful event, like you know, the CEO leaves a company and you're like, oh man, I own this, the stock is selling off, I should get out too. We show the data set that says don't worry in two months, 90% of the time, and it's right back to where it was when it started. So don't sell into the sell, you know, maybe buy when it goes down or just hold and don't panic about it. And that's a big piece of this. It's just not making mistakes, and we see a lot of people making these sort of like very emotional reactions without any basis for it, because there's no like Vegas odds that they could turn to right, and normally you walk to a blackjack table and you're like oh, I know my odds of getting, you know, a 10 card based upon how many cards there are in the deck, but there's no version of that for events, which is what we're trying to do, and say, look, you got a 90% chance that this thing is going to come back. Don't sell, you know, or this is the time to load up. That's a piece of it. So for those that have to access their money, and they can also make money in quicker intervals at a higher rate, so you can make 10% in a day and then keep your money in cash, making 5% interests in a money market account, like it is now, until the next event happens and you're like, what kind of target returns are you're looking for for the year? If the average for the S&P is like 7 to 8%, depending on, you know, period of time you look at, your only goal is to make 8%. You don't need to leave your money in all year to do that. You can do it in a day and then leave it in cash and do it again and again and again and again, like several times. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:49

Well, or you do like me and you just get on your my brokerage account and you see what customers are buying and the buy sell ratio and I look at them like, oh, why is everybody buying this? So today I got on there and everybody was buying Pfizer. Everything else was kind of flat. It was like kind of the same amount of buys as sales. Actually there was a lot more sales that looked like. But the one thing people were actually buying was Pfizer. And I go in there and I look at it and I'm like, oh, wow, there's a. You know, there's some estimates. It says, you know, it's way more oversold than undersold it's. You know, the health of the company is fine. Obviously it's Pfizer. It was half the price of what it was, I don't know, six months ago. And I'm like I have no idea what's going on with the company, but it looks cheap and they pay a 6.5% dividend. You know, and I'm like, hey, there's guys that bought it at the peak. Here I am buying it half of what they bought at, probably, and it's 6.5% dividend. You know, and I'm like, oh, should I get it, should I not? And then, you know, then I just do nothing.

Speaker 3: 24:47

So yeah, they get the paralysis right, Cause you don't have the data.

Speaker 2: 24:50

No, you don't feel like you got enough. I'm not looking at the chart from a technical perspective, I'm just looking at the price, and I think most people are probably doing that. They're looking at the price. They're saying, whatever tools their brokerage provides them, right, it's going to say something on it. Like you know, there's an. There's five different rating companies out there and they all buy it. They all say it's oversold or whatever. And you're like, oh well, if they say it's good enough, then I might as well do it. Right, it's oversold, let me buy some, right. But it'd be nice to have another tool that looks at things. And you know, outside of what I get out of my brokerage, maybe there's something else out there that I can look at that helps me make that decision that I'm kind of sitting around and just not doing anything and then watch a damn thing go up 10% next week or something you know.

Speaker 3: 25:35

Right and I think it's important to note that there's a lot of opinion in the market. There's a lot of quote unquote experts, you know everywhere. Jim Kramer. Yeah, everywhere, from TikTok to CNN, cmvc right.

Speaker 2: 25:46

If Jim Kramer hates Bitcoin, that's when I buy Bitcoin. If he says, sell it, I'm buying it. That's a trend on Twitter.

Speaker 3: 25:54

Yeah, I know the inverse and you know sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not, but he moves through a lot of different recommendations. It's sort of hard to keep track. Oh yeah, but you know a lot of the people that go on his show, for instance, or any of those shows. They're there to drive up a stock price, either because it shouldn't be up or because they're dumping it. Like you know, you're going to get a hedge fund that goes on CNBC just to be nice to everybody and give them all juicy tips.

Speaker 2: 26:23

No, they're going on there because they're getting ready to sell it. They just want to boost it another 5% before they dump it.

Speaker 3: 26:28

That's right and it's not that different, you know, with kind of the banks and the analysts you know, pumping up a stock when it's on a hot run because they're going to look bad if they don't increase their price target, while the stock's already going up, because it looks like they don't know what they're talking about. So then you have this sort of like machine that's designed to just feed bad opinions to retail investors, individual investors, and there's no fact, no basis for any of it. And so what we wanted to do is have a completely opinionless system. I don't care what anybody says, this is what the event does, this is historically how it's moved and this is how it's probably moving today. And you go onto the system and you can see your own eyes every single event that's ever happened, the prediction of the system and then how it kind of paired out and the win rate. For you know, for every single event type no opinions. We don't get involved, we just let the AI do its thing. It runs, it figures out, you know, finds it's kind of like a speed reader goes through 30,000 documents a minute pulls out the juicy events, throws it into the interface, identifies whether it's supposed to be bullish or bearish flags it and then tickerizes it and send it over an alert. You don't have to spend any time. Just click a button, sign up for the alert that you want, and then it just arrives. You can act on it without even logging into the platform, and it's a huge time saver. I mean, I use it myself on a regular basis. I wish I was using it more often, but these days we're in startup mode, early stage modes, everybody's wearing three hats. But while we were developing it you know it was one of the ways that we actually paid to develop the platform we kind of bootstrapped ourselves with trades. So while the technical team was sort of building the front interface, I didn't have a whole lot to do at that period of time. We already had like the blueprint for what we were building. We couldn't sell it to anybody, so there was no customers at the time. So I just traded and with the money that came in I put it back into the company and paid staff with it. Yeah, probably the most fun. I had honestly the whole time of doing this. But that was when we were really trying out and see hey, you know, can we put our own money where our mouth is? And it worked.

Speaker 2: 28:47

That's tough. Sometimes, man. It's like, oh, it's my money now that I'm dealing with, and should I hold onto this and invest it in something else, or do I put it back into the business? And a lot of times, investing in yourself is probably the best thing to do, you know.

Speaker 3: 29:02

It is. You know, I think you have a spouse.

Speaker 2: 29:05

Sometimes those decisions are group decisions, Although when I told when I told my wife I was running for actually, I announced it on Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram before I told her I was running for county commissioner here in Hamilton County and she was like, isn't this she texts me, isn't this something we should have talked about, with a screenshot of, like my LinkedIn post or something? Yeah, yeah. But when it comes to money, it comes to money, definitely you might want to talk to the spouse, right?

Speaker 3: 29:36

Right and in our conversation in this house was well, we think this business is going to work. We're going to put money into it. If people don't buy into it, they don't sign up for it and we don't make money off of that, we'll still use the AI for our own trade. So one way or another, we'll make money off this business. And that was kind of my pitch to my wife. I was like, don't worry, we're going to get back. She's been through the startup before in my last company and there's a lot ups and downs so it's difficult the life of an entrepreneur.

Speaker 2: 30:12

Oh, it's really difficult 95 gig. So your old company versus this company? I mean, have you had to go out and pitch investors for both of these? Did you do it in the first one, not in the second one? What have been the challenges? Because there's a lot of people that listen to this that are they're looking for a side hustle. I'd say that most of them probably want to keep their full-time job. They're just looking for something else something to make $1,000 a month or $500,000 a month, just something to pay their car payment or maybe help them pay their mortgage right now or pay off some student loan debt. They're looking for something small like that, but not a lot of people start something from scratch, something brand new, something like what you've done with this company or maybe even your past company. What's your experience there? I mean, how do you jump into that? And did you have to raise money?

Speaker 3: 31:02

I did have to raise money. This time was a little easier than the first time. First time was on paper, first time entrepreneur, although I had a little side hustle before I started. That, which was a small publishing company, just kind of created a book, sold a book. It was a book about how to live frugally in Boston at the time.

Speaker 2: 31:25

Oh, my God, you got to live frugally in Boston. Boy, I mean, I don't know if you can do it. Yeah, I mean, if it's possible, read that book. What was the book called?

Speaker 3: 31:33

It was called Broken Boston Perfect.

Speaker 2: 31:36

Perfect, yes, the most expensive city in the country.

Speaker 3: 31:40

Yeah, it was very much a shock. I was coming up from Atlanta and back then Atlanta was a really cheap city, so we went from rent that was like a two bedroom with a pool and two parking spaces for your car, for 500 bucks a month to a 400 square foot studio with zero parking and a walkup, five flights that you could barely fit a box up the staircase for $1,200 a month. It was like, wow, this is a sticker shock all over the place. And so I had this idea in my head for the time I was living there and then decided I thought I was going to go and do the entrepreneur thing. I should probably have a project under my belt and I didn't make a ton of money off it. It was like a $20,000, $30,000 profit just building this thing, getting on Amazon, getting it out there, and then around that time I was in graduate school writing the books. I needed some extra money and was also doing some trading at the time to pay the bills, and it was the trading that was more successful ultimately for paying the bills than all this work that went into a book. Where'd you go to grad?

Speaker 2: 32:55

school Nacient W Okay, oh, wow, okay oh nice. Yeah, how do you feel living in Boston? So Atlanta, obviously Atlanta's blown up. It's, you know, capital of the South. It's killing it right now. A lot of big businesses moving down there, are already moved down there. But you know, south, compared to where you're at in Boston, I mean, is it for a startup guy, do you feel it Like? I mean, it's a very innovative city. You probably got a ton of startups, but there's a lot of money to go around. You know it's one of the top venture cities I would say that someone could move to. I mean, you got New York, you got Boston on the East Coast and then over on the West Coast. You know you obviously got Silicon Valley and Seattle. You know what is it like there as far as raising money. Are people tightwads, like they are here in the Midwest, or are people? I mean you're yeah, you got the German last name right. You understand the tightwad stuff. I mean you wrote a book about being cheap in Boston. This is so German of you to do that, right? Like I mean, this is in Cincinnati, he's all Germans, right? It's like we're in this German trunk. You got Milwaukee, st Louis and Cincinnati. Everybody in there is a bunch of tightwads, so it's hard to raise money here. I mean you go out West and it's like, oh, you need what? Do you need Three mil? Oh, here you go, bam, here's a check here. It's like you need 30 bucks. I don't know, tell me about your business.

Speaker 3: 34:13

I know and you find, like, generally on the coast it's easier. So Boston you know, I didn't try to raise money in Boston. I was raising money in the DC area, but I found in Boston that the labor force was amazing because there's so many students, so if you needed to get anything done, you could pretty much get it done for free, because you have 60 colleges and 60 mile square radius. Oh, that's crazy. And so that was how I ultimately got the book done. Like half of it was researched by interns and give them, you know, $500 and a credit to their name on the book, and they were really happy because their bills were being paid for typically by their parents. So that part was great, you know, for Boston, a great startup city, because you could find people who are willing to take on a lot of responsibility for either resume purposes or just to get in early with a startup, and they don't mind taking the risk. They don't have a wife and kids to support at that stage of their life, so you know, you don't need as much money. We came to DC and I was raising money here, and so the origin was when to grad school started working full time for a publicly traded company called ICF and as a management consultant and was working for the Pentagon as a consultant. So it's designing different types of technology systems for them that were event detection systems, effectively within kind of the environmental safety space. It got hooked on, you know, the technology piece. I love building it. But it was cool, Like working with all the generals. That was fun and they would blow crap up in this little defense systems and you know we got into all the secret clearance things back then. Nice, that's fun. Yeah, it was great. And then we also saw all this craziness that would happen in government. You know they were losing like $5 million worth of office equipment in a warehouse and they couldn't find it. You know, or you know, every time a new general would come in they demanded that the new TV in his office had to be bigger than the last guy. Last general's TV is spending like $4,500.

Speaker 2: 36:23

This is crazy and this is where our tax dollars go. Folks, this is where the tax dollars are going Gold toilets, you know.

Speaker 3: 36:30

It was driving us crazy. So as a joke, as just a joke, we started this blog called oh my Gov Interesting To talk about the craziness, and it kind of took off. You know, started to really take off. We were posting the stories of stuff that we saw. We were getting like $500,000 visitors a month and we started saying, well, maybe we should make some money off of this thing. How do we monetize it? Ran some Google ads. It didn't seem to cut it, but then started getting like some corporate sponsors, and so one of the early corporate sponsors that I brought on was actually Microsoft, and they had a government sales division. They wanted to reach, you know, government employees, where the ones are really reading the blog, and so once that happened we actually had revenue. So our kind of site also turned into a revenue maker and at that point we said all right time to stop just jabbering on about what's wrong, let's create. The solution and that was kind of the origin of the last company was we wanted to use public facing information, social media particularly to kind of inform those in government what their citizens actually wanted from them Instead of just relying.

Speaker 2: 37:40

Yeah, that's what we need. I mean, that's one of the reasons I'm running is because nobody ever asks us anything. And then you look at some of the stuff they spend money on or what gets forgotten, like I mean, there was $45 million or something that the veterans were supposed to use and the county of the Hamilton County just didn't say anything because it went back into the general fund. So if the veterans didn't use it, they weren't going to tell them because it's like oh, we can take it and then go spend it on pet projects. That's not the way it's supposed to be right, state of Ohio gives the veterans that money and it just crap like that just slips through the cracks and if nobody's looking at it, you know nothing ever gets done.

Speaker 3: 38:17

Right. Or if it does get done, is because there's one person in the top of the organization that thinks that it's necessary and there's nobody to tell them it's not necessary, right? So they come in and they say here's what the agency needs to do, and then the agency does it. Is that what people wanted? They don't know. It was just a good idea and they implemented. So, yeah, that was kind of the origin of the monitoring system. Can we pull that together in real time? And then what we found was governments were too slow to actually purchase that system. It was too advanced if they didn't have a criteria, if they didn't have a mandate to purchase it, even though it was a good solution. They're like, well, yeah, this is good, but we don't have a requirement to buy it, so we're not going to buy it. We got to get it through procurement somewhere else. So we pivoted to the private sector and started doing kind of similar for them and doing this event monitoring for probably traded companies. And we'd say, hey, we could identify, when you're trained, we could send it to the corporate comms officer and they'd go, oh crap, All right, let's drum up the press machine here and do the apology tour, and so that kind of became the last business we were selling into Fortune 500 and publicly traded companies, and somewhere during that time period we were seeing these big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big. Just somewhere during that time period we were seeing these patterns right where that event would occur, and then the share price would move according to the event. So there would be a cyber breach at one of the credit card companies that were our clients. And then boom, and for 10 years we ran this company and we saw these patterns. And so at some point somebody in the financial services industry whispers you guys are doing amazing work, your tech is awesome, but you're in the wrong business, you should be in financial services. And it kind of stuck. And so I started to try to understand where he was coming from and I became an advisor for the hedge fund that he was working with to try to help him understand how we did real time information processing, and he in kind, was showing me what it's like to work at a hedge fund. I was being introduced to traders on the floor and other portfolio managers and different funds and kind of work almost like a reporter, you know, like tell me how you spend your day, like how do you decide on a trade. And what I saw was there for the most part just looking at Bloomberg terminals and looking at news feeds and then reacting to those news feeds and I thought, wow, this is not quite as sophisticated as I thought they would have. And I think that, yeah, we can definitely do this and do it better and faster and cheaper for an average individual. But at the time we were, you know, we were like year seven of the company. We were pretty well established. We had, you know, 50 clients that we had to keep happy all the time, so trying to launch a new division wasn't going to be an easy feat. So we started to raise money. We went to some growth equity folks in the private equity world and we found one firm and they were going to do a $15 million raise, fund raise with us to expansion capital. They wanted us to buy another company that was an AI company and integrate it into what we were doing. And we were, the deal was there. I went back to the board. Our board was like, okay, you know, I see this, but there's going to be a lot of dilution. What does it look like if you just sold the company now and it kind of did the math and said, you know, more or less until you get outside of year five, you know from where we were. The return was exactly the same because of the dilution from the capital, and the board ultimately decided just sell the company now, like if it's a hot commodity, let's just exit. And you know, frankly, we were kind of tired of the business anyway. We've been running at it for a long time. Oh yeah, you know, it was a 10-year streak. We did well, and so we sold the company in 2019 and and took what my wife called a sabbatical.

Speaker 2: 42:46

Oh, nice, got to take a little time off.

Speaker 3: 42:49

Like to take some time off. Oh, good to you. You know swimming in the middle of the day. Oh lovely. I lasted about three or four months of doing that before I was like, all right, ready to get back at it. What's the next thing? Yeah, and, and the kind of the band got back together again, so to speak, and we started working on an artificial intelligence version layered over, kind of a recreated data system. You know, knowing what we had learned in data mining and big data processing for 10 years, we said let's recreate that system. You know, different code, different way, more efficient and then add this AI component. And we were looking at you know, how do we? How do we kind of create this automation system where you can just populate data without humans entering it into a database, and then we'll figure out how to use that. You know, we're kind of really hot on that particular topic and the idea was self-populating databases. Right, like anybody, to just create a spreadsheet of information without doing anything and just say AI, fill in the blanks, and then boom, boom, boom, you've got your spreadsheet filled out, and so we're playing around with that. And then COVID hit and the market got wiped out, number was freaking out and we got, you know, myriad of phone calls and it just it created that realization that, okay, events change the world. Events change stock prices. Events change everything. This is what we need to be monitoring. This is what we need to be measuring. This is the decision analytics that people are missing, because nobody knew how to react to COVID, and the fact of the matter was we should have, though, because we had smaller pandemics and epidemics where the price movements were exactly the same. So, when the you know, for example, when, when Zika happened in 2016, and he had the first US transmission in intracountry transmission, so when US citizens are next of Zika the cruise ships, on average, went down 6.5% that day. Fast forward to 2020. We had the first intracountry transmission of COVID. Cruise ships went down 6.5% on the first day. Airlines went down the same amount. Airlines went down on both the same, and few people know that, like during Zika, they actually closed the port of Miami. Oh yeah, they stopped cruise ships coming in, you know, so it was like a mini COVID, oh that cruise ship situation.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Boy, those things got destroyed.

Speaker 3: 45:31

They got destroyed. No one went to South America. I remember I was supposed to go to to Ecuador for a vacation it was going to be like kind of a guys trip and my wife was like you're not going, like you're going to be having kids soon, but thanks, don't bring that back. Yeah, no, don't bring that back, but nonetheless, those data sets are there and for your average person, who's not going to go back and research years and years of epidemic and look at markets, or it just takes too much time to spreadsheet it out we thought, oh okay, we can automate this. And then, as we looked at it further, we realized, yeah, this is everything in the stock market. It's all events. There's nothing but events. Everything else in between events is just opinion.

Speaker 2: 46:24

Good point. Yes, oh no, that's true, that's 100% true.

Speaker 3: 46:31

And it was like all right, we've got something here. How do we make this work? How do we make the interface work? How do we make it so people trust the system, you know? And then we started just really just ripping as fast as we could to build this thing and we were testing it, you know, along the way, and we saw that it was sort of validating itself. We were taking some of the events that had been subject to academic studies for many years. You know, like academics that will study how events affect share prices. So we didn't have to recreate the whole thing because we could look at these academic papers and say, okay, that's great, take this, integrate it and look at it Smart.

Speaker 2: 47:08

Well, you spent time in Boston. You know you got to have some research behind it. What you're doing right? No, this is that's great. Where did most of that come from, that research? Did it, was that universities that you were close to, or did you just kind of, you know, browse around and find different things?

Speaker 3: 47:24

I mostly. I mean, I had ideas of sort of where starting point, because I've been trading since I was 14. And so I have pretty good ideas of you know the types of events to start with. But then you have to validate it and see if there's an academic study that exists, and so you just go into Google Scholar and be like all right, let's look at this type of event. Is there any research on it? There, almost always was. You know somebody from you know UC Berkeley or Harvard, or you know MIT or Carnegie Mellon, you know things like that.

Speaker 2: 47:55

They would really want to study kind of event studies and one of the Carnegie Mellon and it made me think of Pittsburgh. And then I got like flashbacks across the Palmer's Lake getting hurt.

Speaker 3: 48:05

Okay, I'm back, I'm back and I was you know, for a time I was faculty at Georgetown here and some of the computer science folks, and so the chair of the department and I worked in the last business together and I called her up and I said I had this idea. You know, let me know if I'm nuts. Here's what I want to do with event extraction. And she's like I'm working event extraction right now. I just wrote my fourth paper on it you should read my stuff. And we started talking and like, all right, I will tell me what's what's difficult. It's just sort of laid out like the difficulties you know, for she's a computer scientist that studies the stuff. And I said, all right, you know, I'll bring that internally to our team and we know those are the technical challenges that we have to get past. And so, brought in you know specialists and AI and natural language processing and linguistics and you know, use some of her research as sort of a guide of what we were going to run into. And so it was a lot of like amalgamation of, you know, a lot of information that has been out there and research for years and we were commercializing it. And then we were democratizing some of the stuff that that hedge funds were doing. That you can easily see, you know, from just Googling like event driven hedge funds, and you see all our strategies emerge, or arbitrage, or our strategies index rebalancing like what is index rebalancing? Okay, let me look at that. Oh, you're just guessing what's going to be in the S&P 500 next after somebody gets acquired. Okay, yeah, we can do that, you know, and you just go down and you're like this stuff, if you know the tech and you have the AI, is doable and so it's a lot of magic. You know that is now baked into the system and I kind of laugh sometimes we have we sell it for, you know, a couple hundred bucks per year per subscription at the entry price, and I always laugh and people are like, yeah, it's too expensive. And I'm kind of like you have any idea what went into building this thing. You know it's too expensive, but you can make your money back like 100 times. Oh, yes, find me a pair of pants where, where you can do that, you're gonna buy for 200 bucks, lucky.

Speaker 2: 50:18

I have all these other things on here, like watch trading, you know side hustles and people doing you know tarot and Uber and all this other stuff. It's like man, this is so easy, like I mean, if you've got a system that's set up. I mean, I'm looking at your website and you know you got a headline on here act on facts, not opinions. You know what you just said. There's, there's facts, and in between those facts and those events you just got opinions. You got people coming on CNBC pumping a stock another 5% before they dump it on you and then here you are left holding a bag and you know you're you're down and who knows how long that's going to drop and how far it's going to drop. And these guys are acting on stuff that things that you're producing, similar models, and here we are able to access stuff like this for 20 bucks a month. Like it just feels like a no brainer. I mean, I think I'm paying more for Netflix now than this. Seriously, like I mean what in the hell? Like, if you're trading at all, like, what are you doing? Like, why wouldn't you do something like this, Like just to have it? I mean, hey, I'm thinking about trading Pfizer, like today. I'm like, how should I pick up Pfizer? Well, I don't know, I don't. You know, maybe I should just let my broker handle all this stuff and maybe I shouldn't do it. You know, I got one little account that I screw around with and I've gotten lucky over the last like two months, three months, because I bought a GBTC, a grayscale Bitcoin trust. It's like two or three months ago when it was really low, and I'm like, oh, bitcoin's like 15 grand, there's no way it's going to stay down there. Let me just buy this thing. Now I'm up like 400% or something on it, but that's total luck. I'm not. I'm not a genius. People are like, wow, that's great. I don't know. I just, you know, I follow Bitcoin, you know, and that's, I think, what most people do. They follow a handful of stocks and they keep track of those to make it easy on themselves. Right, it's like, let me just follow four or five stocks that I know about. You know, I'll trade them up and down if I'm a day trader, I'm a swing trader. You know, I keep an eye on the price action and I can kind of tell if it's going to go up or down. You know, because I just look at the stock. You don't have to do that with this. You're looking at three, what 3000 stocks, something like that, six thousand on a regular basis, like I don't have time to do that.

Speaker 3: 52:27

Yeah, every day, and it's looking for opportunities constantly and you're going to find stocks that you never heard of and if you get one good idea per year, you will absolutely make the money back that you put into the platform, which is why, for me, it's like I don't. I don't know why anyone wouldn't, other than lack of trust. You know that we're not selling snake oil, which we're not and you know that as soon as you log in, you see all the events, what's happening with them. You know, and some of them you can't react as fast as you'd like, and others you can react with plenty of time.

Speaker 2: 53:00

But it's up to you. Yeah, do your other research. Like it's, it'll just rely on one platform either. I mean, take this. I mean literally, what I would probably do is I'd stop relying on on what customers are buying on my broke, on my brokerage platform, and I'd probably just look at this first and then I'd say, oh okay, well, look at this thing. And then I'd go maybe to my brokerage platform, see what the sentiment is, see what the stock looks like, maybe check out the PE ratio. Is it overbought, Is it oversold? I'd look at some of that stuff and make a decision. Does it pay a dividend? Maybe I'm a dividend investor and I'm looking for stuff like that. Wow, I could pick this thing up. Sounds like it. You know, they just had a great event. They're paying a 6% dividend, which is crazy, and it looks like the stock's going to go up. Maybe I pick it up at that point, you know.

Speaker 3: 53:44

Well, and Pfizer came through the system, I believe because they did a dividend increase, which is one of our events that we track, and so you could look and just wait for a large dividend increase. You know from a stock and so you know to look at something like Dix the year ago did 105% dividend increase on what was already a big dividend and the stock moved 20%. So you don't need to sit and wait for that dividend. When the stock moves 20% afterwards, you just got the dividend right. You don't have to sit in it for the rest of the year waiting for it. You can if you want to. There's an extra boost. But you know, if your goal was to make 6% and the stock is up 20, you should accomplish it. You don't even better.

Speaker 2: 54:22

Yeah Well, I mean, do you guys have like a glossary of terms and things for people that don't understand what some of this stuff is like? I'm looking at the website return a capital event, government action event, restructuring event Like I'm not sure how those events generally affect a stock and then what, how much that event on average maybe affects the stock price. Is it positive or negative? Is it a positive or negative event? Like I'm not sure. Is there, say, a glossary or is there some kind of like an education videos or something you guys have?

Speaker 3: 54:55

Yeah, there's a lot of it. So when you log into the platform, you'll see it organized into 24 different strategies, if you will, they're all scenario. We call them scenarios. Each scenario is a bundling of the same type of event. So if it's a dividend increase, that falls under the broad bucket of return of capital, and you'll see, and there's nice sort of analytics that will show you, there's a big green bull right next to it. It's like this is bullish. And then we'll say average one day return plus 2%. Average 10 day return plus 3%. Win rate 75%. Oh, that's a nice one, right? So then you know okay, this goes up. It goes up 75% of the time and on average it's going up this amount without looking at anything else. And then from there, if you want, you can click it and say you know what? What if it's only tech companies? Can I filter by just tech companies? And then we'll show the analytics will change. We'll say the win rates now 85%, still bullish. Average move was plus 3%. And so that's right there in front of you. It's pretty clear. When the alerts go out, each alert has a. What should I do with this information? On it, right on the alert, on the email so you click on that. That goes into our kind of knowledge center which defines all the terms, looks at, tells you about each scenario, gives you information, and then we send on a weekly basis newsletter with a case study, a week tips, how to use the platform, a macro economic news analysis of like what's going on, big picture so you can kind of map to what you might see with those events. And so there's a ton of ton of educational component that we put in there, cause we really want people to be successful. They're not successful, they're not going to keep.

Speaker 2: 56:41

No one's going to get your platform and it's going to poop out and all this time you spent building it's going to be wasted. So, yeah, if you don't have positive reviews and people are making money, then what's the point? And this isn't. You know what I think the overall thing is, and the message here is, is you're bringing information that is typically not necessarily been kept from the general public on purpose. It's just stuff we don't know how to access. I mean, this is thing, these are things that I mean. You pay a team of people at a hedge fund to fund, to research and find this information before anybody else gets it. That's the edge. Right, that's their edge. You're giving regular people an edge. Actually, it's probably pissing off the hedge fund people because they're like, oh well, it is. Yeah, some rich guy who was thinking about dumping you know 10 million to a hedge fund, his kids, like, well, we don't need that anymore. We got level fields, what are we doing? And he's like, oh, tell me more about this level fields. And you know, the hedge fund guys call him like hey, where's that 10 million?

Speaker 3: 57:38

Yeah, we've gotten some shady inquiries from hedge funds trying to figure out how we do what we're doing and how fast we do things. Yeah, and I would say, you know, sometimes it's not just speed right, you don't necessarily have to get the information so fast. It's this that you hear about it period. You know, remember, we just came out of the you know, last 15 years of every newsroom in the world shrinking, and so you know the news is really a struggling business. You know it's a tough business model to do. They have to sell advertising. To sell advertising, they need volume. To get volume, you need to put clickbait out and that's all the stuff about NVIDIA and Microsoft and the gossip of open AIs, departures and whatever Elon Musk is eating for breakfast that day or whatever he said, and they put out that stuff and it's about 30 companies that they're really focused 90% of their time on, and so the rest of the companies get largely ignored and nobody hears about them. And what this is is opening up all that other information straight from the source of the companies, in most cases bypassing the news, and then bringing it directly to you so you don't have to have a middleman filtering your information for you a middle person, I should say, and you know that's really part of the benefit. It's like imagine if you could just know what's going on with 6,000 stocks all at once, without having to wait with the news filters for you and without the bias of you know, when you go into your brokerage platform and you see a lot of people buying Pfizer, largely, or oftentimes something like that would be driven by an analyst giving Pfizer an upgrade, cnbc talking about the analyst upgrade of Pfizer around a round table in the morning, and then it comes out on the CNBC app and then people are reading about it and then they start buying Pfizer and so that's, you know. In a way that's market manipulation, right? So that's one analyst and then the media making sure everybody buys it and then say you're seeing a little signal that people are buying it, but it might not be based on anything fundamental or it could be. A hedge fund guy comes and does the CNBC interview and says oh yeah, we're buying. You know, we think Pfizer's our top pick for 2024. While they're dumping a million shares, you know the share price is going up and when they you know when they have to sell, it's not like you or I. We're selling a couple of hundred shares. A thousand shares is always a buyer. If they've got to unload 10 million shares, it's going to take them weeks to dump that much. So they're going to keep trying to talk up, talk up, get volume to buy, buy, buy while they're selling. Otherwise they're going to drive their own exit price down.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

Yes, yes, that's how it's done. And you're like are you a libertarian? Like this is like you're bringing the information to the people here. You're well done.

Speaker 3: 1:00:28

Yeah, it used to be called an independent, but.

Speaker 2: 1:00:32

This is great, yeah. And there you are in DC dealing with all that politics and craziness and you're coming out with a platform to actually get to help people. I mean, this is great. I really appreciate this, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:00:44

It's hard to get people to believe that you want to do something good for other people these days, but we actually get this up in the morning. It's not just about the money. It's like you make somebody else money and you help their life and you help them not make a bad decision, that you feel good about it. So you have a double win we can make money off the company and we can actually why does somebody got to lose?

Speaker 2: 1:01:04

Why does somebody have to lose? Nobody has to lose, right? I mean, it's perfect.

Speaker 3: 1:01:08

Exactly. There was a buddy of mine as an example. He went into the the GameStop situation, yeah, yeah, and he said he put $100,000 in when the stock hit 400. And that was about the top right oh my gosh 20 and came back down. I think in two days it came back to like 250, 200. So he lost $50,000 a couple of times and he was not like a super wealthy person, so he was completely freaking out and I go to him like man, why didn't you call me? I would have told you that thing was tapped. Yeah, it shot way past any kind of ordinary short squeeze, which happened often, at least a few times a year, consistently. And short squeezes you do like 10 to 12x return and then they come back down and you were piling in when it was like 25x and it's that kind of stuff that we think about. Like just preventing people from making bad decisions is equally important as helping them try to make money. Saving money is also important. Like number one rule of investing is don't lose, don't lose money.

Speaker 2: 1:02:17

That's it, man, andrew. This has been enlightening. I love this, and now I'm going to sign up. Why not? Yeah, I mean this is like, yeah, why not make some money? I mean, christmas is coming up, like let me see what I can do here.

Speaker 3: 1:02:29

So Really Well, we're running kind of a discount Podcast. 23 is the coupon code gives you another discount on something that's already pretty heavily discounted. So if you're thinking about it, you put that in and certainly worth a shot for the educational purposes, definitely worth a shot trying it out for trading, and there's always probably somebody else you know who might like it as well. So it's around the holidays, it would be certainly a good gift, or in any other time of year as well.

Speaker 2: 1:03:03

That code is podcast23. That's right.

Speaker 3: 1:03:07

Like Jordan, Podcast23 and it's levelfieldsai is the domain name it's at ai.

Speaker 2: 1:03:12

Awesome, and they could check you out on LinkedIn, I'm guessing. So in the description we're going to put a link to your information. I'm sure there's probably investors listening to this that are like, oh, let me dig around here, maybe he needs some money for his company, so Send checks, send checks. We can always be bigger, yeah. We can always move into. We can always grow faster. Yeah, go into another vertical if you really want you know. So we have a lot more features we want to build. Oh, I'm sure, oh, I'm sure, yeah, well, great, well, andrew, I appreciate it. Man, thanks for coming on the show today. Thank you, it was nice talking to you. Thanks for having me on, all right. Thanks, andrew. Thanks for joining us on this week's episode of Side Hustle City. Well, you've heard from our guests. Now let's hear from you. Join our community on Facebook Side Hustle City. It's a group where people share ideas, share their inspirational stories and motivate each other to be successful and turn their side hustle into their main hustle. We'll see you there and we'll see you next week on the show, thank you.