The Silent Goldmine of the Notary Side Hustle with Mark Wills

Speaker 2: 0:11

Welcome to Side Hustle City and thanks for joining us. Our goal is to help you connect to real people who found success turning their side hustle into a main hustle, and we hope you can too. I'm Adam Kaler. I'm joined by Kyle Stevy, my co-host. Let's get started. All right. Welcome back everybody to the Side Hustle City podcast Today, special guest Mark Wills. What's up, mark? What's?

Speaker 3: 0:38

going on. Man, so glad to have me.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Thank you sir, I know High energy man you got. I'm high energy, You're high energy. This is going to be a high energy episode. What's it doing, baby, let's go man. So loan signing systems helping us figure out the secrets of the notary industry, the notary world.

Speaker 3: 0:56

Yes, sir. So I'm here. People sleep on what I call the best kept secret in America for income opportunities, and that is being a node republic. So, yeah, I'm excited about jam, about specifically the niche that I teach in, the niche that I've helped tens of thousands of people make money in. So I'll let you lead and we'll go from there.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Yeah, man. Well, I'm interested in your background. Here it sounds like you were an orphan. You bounce around a couple of times, so you know kind of a tumultuous background, but that didn't hold you back. You decided you were going to do something. You found a little niche and you're rocking it out. So tell us a little bit about your background, where you are, we're going deep today.

Speaker 3: 1:29

I like it, brother, I like it so yeah. So I mean what my story starts as an orphan in Korea. I am half Korean, half American. I say the half American because I'm a basically a war baby post Korean war, and the Korean culture looked down upon any Koreans who had babies with American soldiers. I was one of them, as easy statistic, as there was over 200,000 babies born via American soldiers, and so it really the Korean culture looked down upon that, and so my mother gave me up because she knew I'd have to have a better life in America than I would in Korea, and so she put me an orphanage. I got adopted by a family out in Southern California. About five years later they unadopted me and so, as if they almost returned something to Amazon, they returned me to the foster care system. So I was an orphanage and then adopted and then literally unadopted. They didn't realize the stress of having an adopted child to bring upon them, and so, instead of trying to work through it, they literally just gave me up, and so, therefore, I ended up in our great foster care system. I'm also a huge advocate for the foster care system because I wouldn't be where I am today without it. So, while there are flaws of the foster care system. I think the holistic view of what they do is very, very good. So I'm bouncing from foster home to foster home between about six and a half and eight. I went through a couple of different foster families there, and then I got adopted and I was about eight years old to the Wills family. My name is Mark Wills and, to make my story even a little, another right turn, as I was adopted to a family of 25 children. And so, yeah, man, so I go from like being, like you know, scared, unknown, to all of a sudden being in more or less like a group home type environment. And so every step of that way has built the resilience I have today. And so, you know, one of my favorite quotes is a memory can be an asset or a liability, and so I choose to take my childhood and build upon it and not be a victim of it. And you know, what I share with my community is, you know, if my childhood is what I dreamed it to be, I wouldn't be who I am today. And so, wow, do I wish I had a different childhood? Yes, but at the end of the day, my childhood create resilience and create someone new courage. It creates somebody who was empathetic to other humans. It creates somebody who wanted to help other humans. And so, while it was very rough, I go to therapy. I wouldn't change the thing, man. And so I am today. And so that is my childhood story in a nutshell. And then I became a business owner about 25, I fell into the notary niche 25, right out of college, and then I ended up having a pretty successful notary company, and so I still own a notary replacement service. But then a friend of mine, who's actually my co-founder about eight years ago, is like well, why aren't you teaching other notaries how to be as successful as you've been as a notary? And that's where the light bulb went off. And now today I have over 75,000 students, I have 11,000 community, a strong community right now as we speak, so of all, just notaries making an amazing living in this little niche, which I'm excited to talk about. So I don't know if that was a long-winded answer, man, but there you go.

Speaker 2: 4:47

No dude, I totally get it. My cousin is one of those war babies and same thing. She lived in Korea for a little while. My aunt's song, you know, wanted her to go experience Korean culture and she used to try to feed us kimchi all the time. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I mean we, you know she had stories, you know, of how the kids were bullier at school and things like that. It was really rough. Yeah, she went through it, I get it.

Speaker 3: 5:13

To get a little deeper in that the 200,000 roughly and it's crazy, the American soldiers are having that many babies. That's just saying it out loud. And there's 200,000 half Korean, half American babies out there and we are actually called the lost souls because the Korean culture didn't want us, and so there's 200,000, like you know, what you understand too is just these humans that were just treated less than dirt because they weren't full Korean, and so racism was very bad back in the post Korean war. Aaron, now it's still a little bit rough in Korea as we speak, but not nearly what it was, and so Korean culture is very proud, and they saw the American soldiers stationed there after the Korean war as kind of a stain on the culture itself, and so that they would mix American blood with Korean blood was looked down upon, and my mom made the biggest sacrifice that any mother can make and that's deciding that. You know you need a better opportunity somewhere else, and so she gave me up, and I think every single day for that man.

Speaker 2: 6:12

Yeah, I think she she probably made the right choice. That's also true in India, with a lot of the British soldiers. In India there's a, there's an entire community of mixed people who all kind of come together and they have, you know, get togethers and everything every year. There's kind of like a you know a party kind of thing to know that man. Yeah, yeah, because they all kind of share that same heritage. And yeah, it's the same kind of deal there too. I mean, it's a you know, war is crazy, man, and things like that happen. But I mean, you came out on the other side better for it. I think she sounds like she made the right decision and you were a resilient person. And look at you now. And now you're doing this notary thing. It's almost like this obscure thing. You're part of this tiny niche right of people and here you are working in this tiny niche industry, right? Yes, it's interesting kind of how the way that worked out, though. So tell us a little bit like going to a little bit more like notary thing. Like when you were a kid you weren't thinking you know what I'm going to do one day, like I'm going to grow up and I'm going to like teach other people how to be a notary.

Speaker 3: 7:16

No, it didn't happen like that at all, I mean. So you know what I love about this the podcast with itself is 75% of notaries do it as a side hustle. Most people just don't realize how to make it a lucrative side hustle, and so that's what I've done. But to kind of bring it back a little bit is, right out of college I had a buddy who was a realtor and I couldn't really land a gig. I'm 25 years old, 24. He's a realtor, he's my same age, and I was like, man, I just can't find a job and I'm going, you know, just, I'm working at a restaurant throughout college and kind of that's what I do after college. And he's like well, no, it's crazy man, every single time I close a house, there's a line item for a notary on the line on the closing costs, and they're making $150. And I said, well, how long do these appointments take? He's like well, most of my closings take maybe an hour. So I said, let me get this straight these notaries making $150 for an hour work, or worth a work, a worth of work. And he goes yes, exactly. And so there, the light bulb went off for me. So I figured out how to be a notary. And then I had a buddy who was a realtor and I'm like, well, what's the key to getting business? Well, he's like just go talk to other realtors. And that's kind of where the snowball effect happened. And so then I realized that you know, what I don't think a lot of people on your podcast understand is every single home in America has to have a notary to close period. That's not 99.9%. And if I had to even get a get, blow your mind even more. Every single piece of real property in America so I mean commercial real estate, I mean the 7-Eleven, the Shell station, all of those required a notary to close. And so the biggest thing I didn't understand before I got into it is that, oh, I'm like, oh well, don't notaries just charge $10, $2, $10, $15 a signature, whatever it is your state allows. And my buddy was like, yeah, but you're not charging per notary sign, signature signed. You're actually charging a flat fee to walk the borrower through their loan documents. And so you are basically throwing in the notarizations for free, but you're driving to the house with the loan documents after hours. You're then printing those loan documents. You're then knowing where all the signatures need to be signed on those loan documents is like for that service it's $150. And the notarizations are just part of your service. So you're not charging of notary fee, you're charging a signing fee, and that's all they needed to hear. I was like okay, game on 25 years old. And so then I renown in San Diego and so all of a sudden, you know, I was doing one closing a week, and then I started doing one closing a day, and then I started doing two closings a day and next thing, you know, I'm 28 years old, making $100,000 a year in my sleep. So then my buddies were like whatever you're doing, mark, I wanted to know what you're doing. So I'm like, cool, no worries. I'm like I'm just gonna literally just teach my friends. I'm like look, get your notary commission, I'll teach you how to go through the loan documents and I'll teach you who you got to talk to within the real estate industry. And so literally about 10 of my closest friends at the time were all notaries in the mortgage niche, making six figures. So I am today coming full circle as a buddy of mine who's now my business partner about 10 years ago eight years ago, excuse me calls me up and says hey, mark, you're teaching everyone in San Diego how to be a notary in the mortgage industry. Can you teach me? I'm like 100% dude, get on FaceTime and I'll walk you through everything. So I get on FaceTime. I'll never forget it. This is like the moment my the business I'm in happened is. I'm teaching him, just like me and you are on this Zoom call right now, and it takes about two hours to go through everything, and so usually at the end of me breaking it down, I usually get a big heartfelt thank you like oh my gosh, mark, you're the man. I appreciate you. But that wasn't my friend's reaction. He was like you just taught me how to do this over FaceTime. I'm like what is your point? He's like, well, if you can teach me over FaceTime, you can teach anybody over FaceTime. And then I sat back down in my chair and I said, aha, I never thought about that. And he goes yeah, if I can put a notary in front of you, do you think you'll be able to teach them? I was like, well, I've taught 10 to 15 people at this point. I just taught you over FaceTime, let's give it a shot. And so my business partner, who is a happen to be you know, like the universe sometimes just conspires happened to be a digital marketer, and so he threw up a website. Within a week we had 20 signups, no paid traffic, it's just organic. And he's like Mark, you don't understand SEO. But this tells me notaries are literally searching how to make money as a notary. They don't realize how to do it. And I said, okay, so he put five notaries in front of me. I taught them how to do it, and then he put 20 notaries in front of me and then I taught me how to do it, taught them how to do it, and so that was the genesis. It was like oh my gosh. And then, because of the background that we shared earlier, like I found my calling. All I want to do is help other people win man, and I can help someone. In Kentucky, tennessee, I have students in all 50 states, it doesn't matter what state you're in. A notary has to be hired to close on a mortgage period and I can teach you how to go to mortgage officers, lenders, escrow officers, real estate attorneys, title officers, appraisers can give you referrals. I mean, there's so many people that can give you referrals to the business. And so that's where we are today, where I, just eight years later, you know I've said 75,000 students, have 11,000 of those in a community that we're just share what works, share wins. And, like I said, 75% of my students are part time notary public loan signing agents, and that's technically what a notary for mortgage companies is called as a notary public loan signing agent. And so we have 11,000 notary public loan signing agents from across the world and a huge Facebook group across the country. Excuse me, in a huge Facebook group, share wins. I've students in all 50 states, from Alaska to New York to Hawaii, to Florida, everywhere in between. And you know it's just, it's the best kept secret in America for income opportunity. So if someone's listening to this right now, research being a notary for title companies. It's called a notary signing agent. 45 of the 50 states. Dude, don't even require a test. So becoming a notary is just applying for with your state, like trying to get a credit card application. How crazy is that.

Speaker 2: 13:26

But yeah that's where we are today. Man Well, I'm already a real estate agent, I got a building, so, and there's a parking lot, so, yeah, I can do this 100%.

Speaker 3: 13:34

Anyone can do this. Man, it's really the best. People don't realize. I mean, I have students are like Mark. I've closed on like 10 homes in my life. You know they're 50 years old. I never realized that line item on the closing costs. The notary's getting all of it. Yeah, I said, go look at your closing cost sheet. Right now there's a line item for a notary public and this happens every day. We're about to have a massive refinance boom in this country. Rates are dropping. Oh, yeah, I mean. So we're about to hit another boom. If you're so, if you're looking for a side hustle, you want to make sure you understand what this business is, because there's notaries right now making money on mortgage documents. That could be you and should be you.

Speaker 2: 14:13

Well, I'm looking at your there's. So, guys, the website is loan signing systemcom and there is under blog and more at the top there is an income calculator tool. So I just went through it real quick while you were talking and it's like $3248 a month potential income just working part time and and you know it sounds, sounds ridiculous, just for you know. Maybe an hour or two, you know, at a time, Not a big deal.

Speaker 3: 14:45

That's kept secret in America, man, I mean, look, there's no. I tell my students that there's no college degree needed, no experience needed. You just got to get your notary commission from your state and learn how to go over mortgage documents and learn who to talk to. That's it. You know. You make $180 an hour and it's as much as some some attorney's charge, some chire practice charge, and you don't need any of that schooling. It's an every home in America and I will say that's all. My face turns blue needs a notary public to close. So notary public who knows mortgage documents is a signing agent. So get your note of commission with your state. Learn loan documents. Loan Signing System is my course, but I'll be very transparent. You can figure this out on your own. I don't know why you would, frankly, but you could. But I wanna help everybody, so you could figure this out on your own 100%.

Speaker 2: 15:36

Yeah, so I don't know if you know if you researched what I would do at all, but we created a company called Dot Loop, which was they didn't do it all. We didn't do a lot of business in California, but everywhere else in the country, like 90% of real estate agents are signed up to use it, but we were sold to Zillow in 2015. And we did all these documents right. We digitized all these documents and they are challenging. I mean, there's a lot of legalese in these documents and it can get a little wild, and I've closed. I'm a real estate investor, so I've closed on multiple properties and I go through these loan docs and all this information and the settlement statements and I'm like I feel like I'm getting screwed. Like you know, like I read some of these numbers on here and I'm like this is crazy. Like what is this? You know courier fee for $100, and what's this so notary is. You know these signing services? This is a line item on that settlement statement. I'd say most people just kind of breeze through that, though they're like, well, the cost of the cost.

Speaker 3: 17:13

I couldn't have said any better. Literally, I mean the fact that couriers are making $100, there's so many little niches within the real estate transaction most people don't understand. A courier is another classic example of that $100, it drives in documents literally a half mile. Same concept here. So a notary public is needed on every transaction and most, like I told you earlier, I have students who are like Mark, I've bought 10 ohms. I never realized a notary's making all 150. Yes, every time, and they take roughly an hour. I mean a long signing is two hours and you're still clear $150.

Speaker 2: 17:46

And that's probably a commercial deal or something like that, where there's a lot of crazy paperwork.

Speaker 3: 17:50

But even in two hours it's still great Monday. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 17:53

Yeah, yeah, oh, great money. And what kind of time are you looking at to learn the documents? Where can you go to learn how to read a settlement statement?

Speaker 3: 18:02

Good question. The answer is twofold. Let me give everybody some advice. So if you choose to figure out on your own which I'm not against you need your notary commission from your state. That, literally, at 45 states, is as easy as an application. Here's the catch. Okay, adam, the catch is there's five major programs, or loan programs you will see at a closing, which is a purchase, a refinance, a reverse mortgage for those who don't know, that's what a 65 and older part of our community gets and then a home equity line of credit, also known as HELOC. That's number four. And the fifth is a seller package, as when a home seller sells a home, they got paperwork that needs to be signed and notarized. So you have to know those five packages. Now you can go on Google and try to search loan document package, home equity line of credit, loan doc package, reverse mortgage, but then there's 200 pages to reverse, 100 pages to a HELOC, 150 pages to a refinance. So the catch is that's the skill you have to have. The A, you got to get the loan documents, and then B, you have to understand how to summarize that, because the baller was just not going to sign something that they don't have summarized. And so if there's quote unquote, a catch to what I'm describing here it's the reason we're paid $150 is we have a real skill set. We know. When you ask us, do I have a prepayment penalty, we know where that answer is in the loan documents. Right, if you have an adjustable rate mortgage and you're like, when does my rate adjust, you can show them in the loan documents. So that's the skill set, that's the reason we get paid $150 because we have a real, tangible knowledge base. So you can either do what I just told you, which is, you know, look up all these loan docs and try to figure it out yourself which there is a few people who do or you take a course like mine loan signing system, where I would give you all five sets of loan documents and walk you through each of them. But, in conclusion, the skill is the knowledge of the loan documents. That's why you know if you're a mortgage officer or realtor coming into the side of the business you're like, oh, I've seen these purchase docs, you know a hundred times. All I really gotta understand now is reverse mortgage documents. So that is the true skill set a signing agent has is the loan doc understanding. And if you can get that down, then it's literally just off to the races.

Speaker 2: 20:08

So and really why someone would use your services, that you have all that in one place. Like if I wanted to become a notary, I can go and there's no real test to take. But I can go to the state of Kentucky and say, hey, I want to become a notary, and they say, okay, great, fill this paperwork out and pay us 50 bucks or something, right, and then, and then that's it. And then now I have to go and be a responsible person, because I'm sure there are some issues like, say you, I mean you'll be embarrassed for one if you're sitting in a closing and someone says, hey, you know what does APR mean? What's the difference in APR in this thing? Or what is you know I've got an arm. What does that mean? Right, so you're going to be embarrassed if you don't know how to answer that question. Or if you're digging through the paper now the sudden that one hour closing turns into an hour and a half because you don't know what you're doing and everybody's looking at you like you're crazy. But are there any like legal repercussions that people have to think about if they want to be a notary? And you know, take your courses, because it's going to prevent you from having these mistakes, making these mistakes potentially hurting you or your client.

Speaker 3: 21:18

Great question and the biggest concern for a notary is understanding unauthorized practice of the law, which is UPL for short. And if you don't know where that black and white line is, you can definitely get in trouble. That's why taking a course is so valuable. We're not. We are not the realtor, we are not the loan officer. Our job is not to explain why you have a certain interest rate. So what I always tell my student is we can do the where and the what, not the how and the why. Like Mark, why is on my interest rate? I don't know. That is not a me question. How did they come to this number? That's not a notary question. But, mark, where does it say I have a five one adjustable rate mortgage? Where does it say you can point out where that says that, mark, what is my appraisal fee? You can point to the line on the closest statement where it says oh, you asked me what your appraisal fee is. It says appraisal fee 450, so you can show the what and the where. You cannot do the how and the why, and so really knowing that line is really the most important part. What a surprise you haven't asked me yet is. You know, why doesn't a bank use their own notary. How come title companies don't have their own note? Because that's usually the first big thing for an uneducated person coming into this industry as well, mark, how come the realtor doesn't have an own notary? Well, why doesn't the title company have their own notary? And here's the answer is there's. The answer is twofold, but here's the main answer. So let's say, the real estate agent, a realtor, can't be their own notary. You can't have any benefit in what you're notarizing. So that's why the realtor can't do it. Or the loan officer, or the banker. You can't notarize something you get commissions from. You can't notarize something you have benefit from. So that's just black and white law. But what if the realtor was like oh, let me hide that the receptionist in here is not making a commission office, why don't have the receptionist do it? So here's the answer and this is where understanding their unauthorized practice law is so important is, let's just say it's it's sam, that the receptionist right and he accidentally forgot to put the second end in jennifer when she, when he was notarizing. Now jennifer loses her home because somebody said, oh, that I own that house but not jennifer. So then the onus would fall back on the real estate company, they would get sued, not the notary. So they need to separate the notary out because that they need to put all the liability on the notary to make sure the notary is following all the rules and laws of a notary public. Did that land? Yes, oh yeah, separating the liability. So the reason that they don't have an in-house notary eight out of ten times this is not saying that everyone doesn't, but literally eight out of ten title escrow lenders will not have an in-house at notary for this reason is because if that receptionist or whoever in the office makes an honest mistake and forgets to put the why at the end of jenni, the real estate, the title company, can get sued for any negative effects of that. Or if it would they hired a third party notary, then that'd be all the notary's, this part and again. This is why it's important to take a good course so that you know the most common mistakes and know who would make the most common way. Liability would fall back on you. But once you learn those and I've been a notary 20 years in the business, 20 years never had anything back because I know when not to do something I know I never forget the second end and jennifer, or if it's mark with the k and not mark with the c like I know what I'm looking for and I'm not in a hurry because I'm gonna pay $150 where an employee who's gonna pay 17 bucks an hour might just be like stamp onto the next, and now the whoever they work for us under liability for that error. And so the real reason of you know for separation of church and state is liability. So that is why most title companies, lenders and escrow officers don't have a notary inside the building.

Speaker 2: 25:04

Actually be the notary on the deal so, being a notary, you want to be a person who you know pays attention to details. Yes, you probably don't want to yeah, go in there, high you know, you just got that smoking and you're just gonna roll up in there and start having people sign documents. That's probably not the personality type for uh, for a notary yes, I tell my students.

Speaker 3: 25:27

Anyone ever asked me, mark, what's the number one character of a successful notary? Someone who pays attention to detail. If you, or someone who pays attention to detail like this, is your business, so because you're collecting 150 signatures and you're a real estate investor, sometimes that one 1003 has an initial on the bottom and maybe the other bank doesn't have an initial on the bottom, you're like why can't these be uniform? And so it's really understanding. You know the nuances of placements of signatures, dates, initials, and so paying attention to detail is your jam. This is the best hide house on America period.

Speaker 2: 25:58

Dude, I love this man, so you know somebody wants to do this. You know be be someone who pays attention to detail, be somebody who is available. I mean, you kind of have to be available because most of these things are, you know, a lot of times during a day or on the weekends oh, you brought up a good point, brother, so you know what I want to explain you.

Speaker 3: 26:16

You know. Again, this is you. I want to talk to your audience. It's just listening, for the side hustle opportunities is why does what makes this a great side hustle? You actually took the words out of my mouth that majority of signings are evenings and weekends. Why is the question? And that is because banks don't lend to people who don't have jobs. And so when do most people work? Nine to five, and so what they're, what they're telling their loan officer is like hey, get off work at five, can you have something? Go to my house, because not everybody can take Tuesday off at one o'clock to run down to the title company to sign loan documents. Now, that's not saying it doesn't happen, but the most of the business is evenings and weekends, because borrowers are like look, I got enough, I got. My kid has baseball practice at 6 30. I get off at five. I need a notary, meet me at starbucks at 5 30. We need to bang this out in 45 minutes so I can take john into the practice. And so the reason is a great side hustle, and even if someone's listening to this thing I I'd love to look into this as a full-time opportunity. I would tell you transparently that 75 percent of all businesses evening and weekends. So even if you are looking to do this full time, it's still an evenings and weekend opportunity. So that does turn some people off for looking for a full-time opportunity. But if you're looking for a part-time opportunity, you already have a nine to five. There is not a better side business to build in America because the appointments times are evenings and weekends. So this I mean, like I said I will. I've been preaching off of the rooftop for years that this is the best side hustle and american. No one's ever heard of a hundred hundred bucks an hour.

Speaker 2: 27:46

I've been doing this. I've got a 170 episodes into this podcast and nobody's come on here talking about notary services. And you know what too? I think the first thing in people's mind, you know, and I'm an entrepreneur so I'm automatically gonna think what's my competition? Right, who? What is the opportunity here? Why doesn't? Why don't these real estate companies already have notaries they're gonna go to? I'm sure they do. Uh, you know what? How do I break? How do I break in? How do I break in?

Speaker 3: 28:13

right, real question. I'll answer that. So this is what makes our business amazing. This is why I can look you or anyone watching hearing. This is why I can tell you with a certain level of certainty I don't guarantee anything, but with a very high level certainty you're gonna get an appointment because it's an on-call business. Maybe the example I just gave you where that lady was like I got, I get off work at five but I have a the baseball practice at 6 30 so I have to have someone at my house at 5 15. So here's what happens on the back end. So let's say that you know that that lady was. They know the mom was getting phone calls from the loan officer during the day and she's like oh, my god sorry, I was in meetings all day calls a loan officer at three o'clock. Springs the news on the loan officer at three o'clock to she has to sign at 5 15. So now the escrow officer, title officer or lender only has two hours to fill that appointment. So here's what happens. They make a phone call hey, john, mark, and do a signing. Oh, I can't, it's too close to 5 15. Click hey, susan, can you do this? Oh, I have a six o'clock. I can't take that 5 15. Oh, ryan, I got a 5 15, can you? Oh, yes, I can take it. So the signings aren't around the notary schedule, it's around the borrower schedule and so if it was around the notary schedule then there wouldn't really be business for everybody. I couldn't say that out loud, but the fact that everybody has their own schedule and every notary can't be at every appointment is why there's business for anybody new trying to come in, because it's an on-call business. Now, I'm not going to be dishonest here. Obviously some realtors have their relationship with notaries. Obviously some lenders do. But because they have the relationships doesn't mean that they, that their notary, doesn't go on vacation. Like it is christmas right now and we're shooting this. It's in between christmas and new years. I know so many notaries that took the entire week off. That gives a newbie opportunity, and so I either. There are. There are signing agents who are have families and so they have a baseball game to go to on thursday. So just because they have opportunity doesn't mean that there is an opportunity for new people. Just because they have relationships, excuse me doesn't mean there's not opportunity for new notaries because people go on vacation, they get sick. Uh, they have to go to family events. Plus, it's an on-call business and so if I already have a seven o'clock at them, I can't physically do a 6, 30, I mean does that make sense yes, so therefore they need numerous people in the rolodex, and so that's why this is the best kept secret in america, because there's so much opportunity. People just don't know about it. And I will, and that's why you have me on your podcast, man, so I can get everybody hyped on this industry that has been making hundreds and thousands of notaries money, and anyone can walk into the business and do it themselves and no, that totally makes sense.

Speaker 2: 30:55

So call your business dependable title or dependable notary or flexible notary, flexible notary of kentucky, that's. That's going to be the name of it.

Speaker 3: 31:04

100 man, and you know, what makes this business amazing, in my opinion, is you're just selling you, but every realtor has to have a notary to close period. Yeah, this. Now you're saying you're just like, hey, I'd love to be your notary now.

Speaker 2: 31:20

It's just you in the realtor, like you're not selling someone else's product, it's just you and you're not selling something they don't have to have yeah, well, there's a marketplace like uh, you know I'm an exp realtor and uh, you know I really got my kentucky license because eventually I'm gonna. We've got a place getting built down in miami, I'm gonna go down to miami and and there's a niche that I'm gonna serve, uh, you know, with people in the midwest buying places in miami. But, uh, inside of this exp platform you can find these folks, you can find a notary, you can find a title company, you can find all these people. So, you know, you start up this business, think about how are you gonna get your name out there? You, you know, spin up a website like you guys did, right, and then, organically, you're gonna have some stuff come. You know, get your google business page set up and say, hey, notary services, whatever, you've got that set up. But you can get in with some of these brokerages into their system. It might cost you a little bit of money to advertise but you can get a ton of business in there. That's probably the first place a lot of them are going to look.

Speaker 3: 32:22

Well, let me make it even easier for you. You know, just every person literally knows a realtor. Now like I know Adam. I would literally be like Adam. Could you refer me to a title office? Could you refer me to a title office in Kentucky?

Speaker 2: 32:39

Yeah, yeah, I don't even know. I'd have to look it up on Google probably.

Speaker 3: 32:44

My point is every realtor has relationships built in. Yeah, so if you know realtor, you're a business, though it's even easier than what you said Does. Every person in America knows at least one realtor. Yeah, that realtor can funnel you to somebody who can give you business or and the realtor can let you be the notary on their closing. It's I mean, it's this business is for the taking.

Speaker 2: 33:08

Well, people call notary, people call realtors all the time for contractors, like if I'd call, you know, a realtor friend of mine. I mean I'm pretty new at being a realtor right now, but I've been in real estate for a long time and I'm really just doing it for a specific thing. I'm not out here selling everybody's houses or anything right now, but there are realtors out there who've been in the game for a long time and they've built a lot of relationships and this is just like any business. I like I'm an advertising agency too. Over time you advertise less and less because now you've got all this word of mouth business. So if you're going to get serious about something like this, go into it, treat it like a real business, get your name out there, knock on doors, call up places and build those relationships and just based on your calculator here, I mean you could get up easily, be making 30 to $50,000 a year. It seems like, or do like you did, and next thing you know you're doing six figures. Yeah Well.

Speaker 3: 34:07

I mean there's a couple of things I'd love to touch on because I think of a very business oriented audience is the best part about this business is truly scalable Because you can own a note replacement company. That's what I own, so I still own this to the day. So when you get so much business, you can then relationships, like you said perfectly. Then you can run a note replacement business and so now I just hire out other notaries and take a cut of the closing fee. So I literally hire out tens of thousands of notaries and make it cut off every single one of them.

Speaker 2: 34:36

Well, think about all the people that aren't going to do what I just said advertise, get a website up, get you know, call people, knock on doors. There's some introverted people. I mean, your notary doesn't necessarily have to be an extroverted business. Right, exactly right 100%.

Speaker 3: 34:54

And so let me add to that is like so there's a note replacement service. Right, here's what I like to give the introvert to a loved one about to share. So I own a note replacement service. So there's hundreds of not thousand America. So what happens is notaries sign up with my signing service and then when I have a signing in Kentucky okay, it's called Lexington I then will put an address into the software, and then I thought software were populate the five closest notaries to the signers location, and then software will text all five notaries and say, hey, would you like closing at five o'clock? And then I will. The first one to respond gets the business. Oh, wow, so you don't even have to do the notary work.

Speaker 2: 35:41

You could literally just start a placement service. That's right, so, or?

Speaker 3: 35:45

but I want you to see the other side of it. A notary doesn't even need to need to spin up a website, don't need to do any marketing. They need to put their names in the databases that signing services use and if they're closest to the appointment, they get a signing. Now, what's the catch? Is probably what you should be asking, and the catch is, instead of making the whole 150, you make a hundred bucks and the no replacement service keeps 50. So you don't need to do any marketing. So you spoke about introverts. You just got to sign up for these notary databases that's what they're called and then, when it's signing service has a signing near your location, you get a text message. There was zero sales, zero marketing, solely because you're closest to the location. You get a text message and then, if you're the first to accept, you just made a hundred bucks. These are the strategies that people don't even know exist.

Speaker 2: 36:36

See, this is why you take a course. This is why you don't waste your time being a cheap ass Trying to try to figure everything out on your own. Fast, fast forward your business, like get, get moving quicker, and you don't have to figure all this stuff out. It takes you a lot of time this stuff, how it takes years to figure out, not just what you talked about. But I'm sure there's other things we haven't even brought up on the podcast the little details and a little intercessing, the little ways to promote yourself and all this stuff. Go over a little bit how your course is structured and how long it takes to go through that.

Speaker 3: 37:12

Yeah, I. Everybody always asks me how long it takes. I hate that question because it varies person to person. Sure. People always ask me how long? And I say that's like asking a physical trainer how quick can you make me lose weight? And I say how often you working out, or how bad are you eating? There's a lot of variables. So here's what I will tell you. You know, my course is structured in two and, by the way, I'm not the only guy doing this, there's, I'm just the most popular and the biggest, and you know but I don't want to make this super self promoting but I am the largest notary coach in America, notary trainer in America, period bar none. And so the way my course is structured is it's you need to learn the five loan documents first, like teaching you how to get businesses pointless If you can't sit down with somebody and go over the reverse mortgage. And so my course is set up to where you're going to go through a reverse mortgage, purchase, refinance, seller transaction and a home equity line of credit. Once you learn that, then you go into the marketing strategies. I teach you all the notary signing agent databases. I teach you all the nuances that you alluded to what to say to realtors, what to say to lenders, what to state of real estate attorneys, what to say to escrow officer, how to use Google business profile, how to build a website. So I teach you all. But that's secondary. So primary is getting your mortgage education out of the way. I tell every student you're a mini loan officer. That is, frankly, the easy part, and the next part is just going out and executing all the marketing strategies. I couldn't agree with you more. By the way, the best thing to invest in, to spend money on, is someone else's experience. Like that's the best thing you can spend dollars on. It's, can I? How do I shorten my learning curve? And that's buying someone else's experience so they can make money quicker. So you know, everybody always asks me Adam, how do you figure out how to make an online course? I'm like I just bought a course on how to build an online course.

Speaker 2: 38:56

Well, there's a software yeah, my wife's doing it now she owns a spa and she's doing a course on facials, right On skincare, and yeah, she's used Kajabi and you know. It kind of walks you through the steps of and that's my point.

Speaker 3: 39:09

Just pay for someone else's experience, like I'm not going to reinvent the wheel, like go through Kajabi, we use Thinktific, but anyways, you know, the bigger point is I paid for someone else's knowledge to build an online course. Paying for other people's knowledge is the best thing that you could do, and so all my stuff is pre-recorded, mixed with live trainings. It's the best kept secret in America. I mean this podcast that we were doing right now. I gave everybody that what you need to do. You need to get your notary commission. You got to learn the five loan dock signings and you got to learn the notary databases. Just Google that. And then you got to learn what to say to realtors, lenders and escrow companies. I just gave you the playbook. You don't need a course. I gave you the playbook. Now, if you want to lessen your mistakes, I would love the opportunity, but that is literally the playbook. I held nothing back. There's no secret I'm not giving away and I want your audience to know exactly how to do it, and that's exactly how you do it.

Speaker 2: 40:03

And you're even giving people. I mean, there's a money back guarantee. You've got over 5,000 students, you got a high radio. I don't know. 75. 75. Yeah, update that website. 5,000 right there. Well, you said 5,000 plus, so it's fine. Yeah, man, I mean, this is crazy to me that people will go and spend five years in college, get an underwater basket weaving degree, not be able to find a job and complain about their student loans and maybe find and end up starting, you know, and then you work at a coffee shop, you know, just to do all that. Just to go work at a coffee shop or be a host or something at a restaurant and complain about the education system, complain about America, complain about capitalism, complain about all this stuff. You got a course that you know could take you days to go through, could take you weeks to go through really depends on your schedule. But you get this thing. It's a fraction of the cost and you could literally be making $100,000 a year in your spare time, at nights and weekends.

Speaker 3: 41:04

I have students who do it, my friend, Some of my best students make seven figures a year with a notary replacement business Wow yeah and then there's that.

Speaker 2: 41:12

Yeah, you take it to the next level.

Speaker 3: 41:14

All the way to the very top, and I'm just if you can't tell I'm so passionate about this industry. You don't need a background, you don't need experience. You can learn everything. Every home in America needs a notary to close period. There's no kind of it's a period, and once you learn why they choose one notary over another, it is off to the races. Once you learn how a notary gets picked, it's off to the races.

Speaker 2: 41:40

When there's people that I mean outside of those kind of loan documents and stuff. I know that there's. There's been times where I've needed things and just notarized like just random things, Like if I wanted to sell my car to someone else just through a private sale, you know, or whatever. I mean there's other things out there where people need a notary and I mean your cost is your cost. Like hey, you want me to notarize that here's, here's how much it costs. I mean you could probably find somebody for 10 bucks or 20 bucks or whatever that'll notarize your stuff, but that's not who the realtor is gonna go get.

Speaker 3: 42:10

Yeah, you know well, you bring up a good point. So you know, my true specialty is teaching notaries how to make money in the mortgage niche. But you just hit it on the nail the best part about being a notary is multiple ways to make money as a notary public. Let me blow your mind. Ready to beat your mind blowing out of here?

Speaker 2: 42:28

Let's go, let's do it.

Speaker 3: 42:29

There is 1.2 billion, that's a B billion notarizations that occur annually in America. Wow, Tell me how big the market size is Times $150. Well, no, that's not a mortgage.

Speaker 2: 42:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah for the mortgages, but times whatever say $25 or something, yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:51

That's exactly right. And so the mortgage niche pays the most Period. That's why I highly encourage people to learn that. But to get your car notarized, that could be $50,. Right, to get an AAPA steel, that could be $150. To do like there's many other ways to work with estate planners that's as high as $400. Wow, but the bigger point is there is 1.2 billion notarizations. That's insane. That number's so big. Most people can't even fathom how big that is. That's 1,001 millions. That's crazy. There is so much opportunity for notaries if you just know where to get it. So I do teach other ways to make money as a notary AAPA, steel agents, even wedding officials, permit running, et cetera, et cetera. But that's what makes me a notary great is, let's say, you're not doing any mortgage closings that day. Well, go do a car loan, go do an estate planning notary closing. Once you learn the different avenues you're going to be like, why am I not a notary sooner? This is a side hustle podcast. This is the best side hustle. So even if you don't want to take the time to learn mortgage products which there is a learning curve, I mean very, very upfront, but let's just say that you don't want to take the time to learn mortgages Just get your notary in. Throw Google Business Profile up, notary somebody's field trip permission split for their daughter and make $75.

Speaker 2: 44:05

You know what's crazy, what you just brought up. If you want to be a mortgage person I mean, I think, forgetting the state of Kentucky and the state of Ohio how long that takes. I think it's like 40 hours or something of training or whatever. Maybe you don't want to go through that. You know what? Why don't you do this? First Learn the notary business, learn the forms, take this course and then, when you go and you try to be a mortgage lender or a broker, then you already know the paperwork.

Speaker 3: 44:38

You could kind of breeze through that I have realtors who are successful realtors who just want to learn the backside of the business, so just for their edification.

Speaker 2: 44:45

Yeah, I would want to.

Speaker 3: 44:46

So it works on both sides. So what are they really signing? What does this really mean? And so, really getting a detailed look under the hood is what's really awesome. Yeah, so it works on both sides.

Speaker 2: 44:57

And when I go to an attorney, I don't nickel and dime them over the letter that they wrote me that cost me $350 just to send out. It's their experience, right? That's what you're paying for. You're not paying for the time, the 15 minutes that they probably used chat GBT to write that thing anyway, that's exactly right yeah you're not paying for that. You're paying for the fact that they put their name on it and they're a professional and they went through schooling and paid a bunch of student loans to get this degree, to authorize this thing. Right, that's what you're paying for. So same thing with notary. Well, you only spend an hour here. What is $150? Like what? Are you kidding me, Dude? This is what it costs.

Speaker 3: 45:38

It's the best kept side hustle secret in America. Everyone is looking for a side hustle, amongst other things. I mean they're the best part. It's not a big financial investment to be a notary, like I mean. Then learn the loan documents and learn the other ways to make money and you're out. It's really the best thing as an arsenal to have for income for your family is being a notary.

Speaker 2: 45:59

Unbelievable.

Speaker 3: 45:59

Once you learn where to look, once you learn how to set up a Googlebiz profile, you're going to get phone calls coming to you just from your Googlebiz profile, which is free, leads, people search, notary near me all day. So there's so many different ways to make money as a notary public. The most lucrative is as a notary signing agent. That's what I teach, but I also teach how to do all the other things. You make money as a notary, but, as I said, man, you have a side hustle podcast, if you're listening right now. Be a notary, become a notary public signing agent, learn the ropes and make more money in 2024.

Speaker 2: 46:30

Well, Mark, I feel like you're my Christmas present man, because I've got. This is perfect for me. I've got a commercial building, we've got a commercial kitchen in the basement, we've got a co-working space on the first floor. We're doing an event center for weddings upstairs, so people are doing the weddings and the receptions in the same place now. So hey, here's a notary, you just got married, let me notarize. Boom bam done.

Speaker 3: 46:53

That's exactly right. People don't realize that every marriage license has to be notarized. That's what people don't understand. And so if you're a notary who also knows how to officiate weddings, you can charge for the service of officiating wedding and then charge for the notarization and make $350 an hour. Again, people just don't know of the massive opportunity there is as a notary public. I mean, do you have a trust by any chance? Yeah. Yeah, so when you had a trust, there are notaries who specialize in trust signings. How many notaries have happened in your trust signing, I don't know. Probably like 40 of them. Times you and a wife, times five bucks a signature, you're making $400, depending what state you're in. Like it really is the best kept secret in side hustles in America. Everybody wants these big fancy side hustles and I'm like dude, be a notary If money will be coming to you without very little effort, and if you want to scale this into a massive business, it'll take more effort, but you can make money with a little effort as a notary period. You just got to know what to do and where to put things.

Speaker 2: 47:50

Yeah, and if you're like you mentioned and I think that's a big thing, it's a key that you said is, if you're a real estate agent, understand the backside of the business, understand these contracts. You're going to get these questions, especially if you're a new agent. Understand what's going on. It's a small investment. It'll make you a better realtor and it'll also make you money extra money when real estate is in the situation that we're in now, where people aren't. You need multiple side hustles. As a realtor, real estate is the classic side hustle, you know, and but you can append side hustles to your side hustle, right? That's right, you can append it. Yeah, you're a freelancer. You have other freelance things, you know. I mean, there's a bunch of stuff we talk about rent your car out on Turro on here all the time we talk about you know all these other things that you can be doing Airbnb, stuff like that. This is a great side. Hustle nights and weekends make it even better.

Speaker 3: 48:45

And the low upfront costs, everything else. You just said Turro, you said Airbnb. Those are all money, money, money, money. A notary in 45 out of 50 states is literally free. The notary supplies are like 50 bucks. I mean now I mean to be a notary signing agent. You need a few more costs, but in general, if you're going to compare a Turro business or an Airbnb business or buying a car wash, like it is pennies on the dollars compared to other side hustles, especially businesses, and this is really the best kept secret. I'll say it five million more times, but you know it's such a low investment for such a high output, high opportunities what I should say.

Speaker 2: 49:20

Well, let me think about it, man, I could. I've had people that talk about franchises and I'd love doing a franchise. But I was looking at Dunkin Donuts. The average Dunkin Donuts franchise owner only makes like a hundred grand. It has to work there. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's how much they profit. They profit about a hundred grand and you know you're working there, right, I mean you're sitting there all day. And then you got to deal with employees people not showing up. It's Christmas. Oh, I got to come in because none of my employees want to come in. They're calling off sick Notary. You're a hundred grand. I mean you could and you don't have the investment and you're not paying someone else Like you still have to pay some of your profits back to corporate, right?

Speaker 3: 49:57

You beat me to it Like our overhead is basically printing loan docs and gas. Yeah, like that's our overhead. And two signings a day, six days a week, a hundred grand in our business. I say six days a week because Saturday is usually a day for us, because people sign on weekends. So six days a week, two signings a day. What does that mean? Let's call it four to five hours if you include travel time. Yeah, so you know, you include drive time. You do two gozings a day. You're out maybe five hours every day. Four day, four hours max and you're making a hundred thousand.

Speaker 2: 50:27

Well, if you're in Cincinnati there's not a lot of traffic, so you're good, you're in.

Speaker 3: 50:30

LA, they're my point, say you might have different problems. Six hours a day for two signings, which would be ridiculous because I said that hour each way. But my point is two signings a day, six days a week, that's four to five hours a day. A hundred grand a year I have more students than I can even account for that make that kind of money, wow. And look, I'll be honest with you. Does it take work to get there? Yes, you've got to create relationships. But if you're talking about apples to apples, business to business, I don't know what better business is in America than this, because you have very low overhead, very low investment costs. Now there is work on credit relationships. I'm not going to be dishonest. You've got to talk to realtors. You got to talk to lenders, you got to mortgage officers. But if you put all things together investment costs of time. You don't need to work behind a fryer Like you're introducing yourself to local real estate agents. It's not that hard, that's right. You do that for six months to a year. You're going to raise up your head after a year and have a six-figure business. I've seen it more times than I can count. It says more testimonials, more YouTube videos and you can say people making money like this it's just because they didn't know about it before they heard a podcast.

Speaker 2: 51:40

And I can't believe I have in 170 episodes. I've never, no one's ever, come on to talk about this and it's amazing. And I'm in the real estate world, like you know, as an investor, as an agent, as a commercial real estate person and I never thought, like shit, I could just why am I doing this? This is going to be my thing, mark. In January I'm going to take your course, I'm going to go through this and I would encourage other people to get in here and do this. Why not? You got a degree. You're not making any money from it. What would you do that for, when you could have done this and make $100,000 or whatever? Whatever you want to make, you don't want to spend that much time in it.

Speaker 3: 52:14

The funny part is, most of my students don't want to make 100 grand a month. Most of my students are Mark. Teach me how to make $1,000 a month. That would give me and my family so much more comfort. Pay my car payment, that's right. So most of my students aren't actually after the six figures. I do have a subset who are, but the majority of my students are like Mark. I want to make $500 to $1,000 a month. I only want to work a couple hours a week and I say done, I'll teach you the ropes. So this and what I love about this business is for anything that's in between $500 extra month for six figures, right. Part time, side hustle or full time, or if you want to scale to a note replacement service and hire other notaries out. It's whatever you want it to be and that's why I call this the best kept secret in America. Man.

Speaker 2: 52:54

I love it. Mark Well, man, I really appreciate you coming on here. You've educated me, You've educated all the people listening and tell people how they sign up.

Speaker 3: 53:02

Yeah, Go to loansigningsystemcom. That is system, not systems. It is loansigningsystemcom. I jump in and get the course and if at the least I have more blogs on just more education on our website, so go to the website loansigningsystemcom. My bet will be in the show notes. I'm an Instagram handle, YouTube channel. I'm all over the place. I'm easy to be found online, but go to the best place to go get more information be loansigningsystemcom.

Speaker 2: 53:31

I love it, Mark. Thanks so much.

Speaker 3: 53:33

Bro. Thank you, brother, man, and that course is on me, okay, so when we're off, we're offline, I'll get you a situation. Oh, nice, nice, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 53:42

All right man, Take care, Thank you. Thanks, Mark. Thanks for joining us on this week's episode of Side Hustle City. Well, you've heard from our guests. Now let's hear from you. Join our community on Facebook, Side Hustle City. It's a group where people share ideas, share their inspirational stories and motivate each other to be successful and turn their side hustle into their main hustle. We'll see you there and we'll see you next week on the show. Thank you.